Obama and the Preachers

jheaton:"Obama himself is the bigot/racist. He has made statements and relationships that prove it."

What statements in particular, jheaton, are you referring to?   

on the question directed towards JHeaton. I don't know if Obama is a racist/bigot. He has made statements about his grandmother being a "typical white person". And his relationships with his spiritual advisor and pastor make the circumstantial evidence too big to ignore.

That's EXACTLY why this is an issue.  

However, anticipating some responses to this post, you can now expect to hear this meme on a "Reverend-Wright-footage"-like loop: 

"How can a person stay in such a church for 20 years and not reject your Pastor/HolyMan's comments?" 

The answer:  Barack Obama only did what tons of Americans do.  Except for those pretending to be perfect, which is everyone asking this of Obama.  Millions of Catholics use birth control and do not reject their Priests' calls to not use it.  Are we to assume that every Catholic politician and layman out there never used birth control and judge them for  that?  Of course not because that would be stupid. Do Catholics denounce this at every turn?  No.  They live their life outside of this dogma because they are human and no one would think of calling them on their(our) hypocrisy.  Likewise, millions of Jews, Muslims, Protestants and Catholics are selfish to a fault and do not denounce their religious leaders' exhortations against selfishness.  Religious Christians even say, "I am not perfect, but I strive to be Christ-like."  Let's talk about how many evangelicals actually want the world to end so that Jesus can then return and how they tend to support Republicans.  Tell me that praying for the return of Jesus, aknowledging that, in some literal interpretation of the Bible, this means the destruction of the world as we know it, does not sound "Reverend Wright-crazy" on the face of it.  Churches, the one I attend, in fact, preach just such a thing weekly and I neither believe nor denounce this, yet I sit there.  My other church (yes, I go to two very distinct churches) emphasizes loving our neighbors, including the illegal immigrants.  Should I denounce my pastor/priest for saying that we should pray for what will essentially be the destruction of Israel because that will bring about the return of Jesus?  Of course not, because I have respect for the good pastor to say whatever he wants and who am I do denounce him? Has anyone the fortitude of balls to denounce my priest for advocating sanctuary for illegal immigrants?  No, because that would be disrespectful.  I am no religious scholar and don't have to be:  what many forget is that on top of being about satisfying one's thirst for salvation and godliness, religion is also cultural, meaning, it might be possble to "do" it without much thought  because you are either made to do it or you simply have always done it.  It is curious to see just how crazy Obama's pastor problem drives white people.  Like I said, the destruction of the entire planet, not merely the "redistribution of wealth" people have a problem with, is being prayed for in churches in our very own town.

That being said, just because you sit in a church for 20, 30 years, doesn't mean that you've drunk the Kool-Aid, unless, of course, you or your church is perfect and you are not Barack Obama.  And that brings us back to the subject of this post:  I don't recall such scrutiny even of W's church and wasn't he a snake-handlin' Pentecostal?  Put that in an e-mail and mail it to ten people:  It will be a fact by next week even though I just made it up. 

This presidential campaign has turned every Tom, Dick and Carlos into religious experts and pundits in an unprecedented way.  Is everyone else as sick of it as I am?

Actually, I knew why he made the statement about his Grandmother and I do find it offensive. As far as only one person being under scrutiny in his church, that is not true. His Pastor may be or have been a spiritual advisor, but so was Rev. Michael Pfleger, the man who said Hilary is upset because she is being beat by a black man. I actually posted a link to the entire 8 min video on GMaudlin's blog, "Why I will vote for Barack Obama".

In response to RichP- I understand your point. I do think we tend to hold spiritual leaders in higher regard, but I do understand no one's perfect. I still think there is no way I would sit in Obama's pastor's church and listen to anything close to resembling what either Wright or Pflegor said more than once- then I would be outta there. I think a more comparable circumstance would be attending the church of a priest who molested a child. Who would, who should? I think even scarier than this "driving white people crazy", is the fact that you don't hear all people appauled. We should. Racism in any form should not be tolerated.

I'm totally down with your post. I agree 100 percent. Absolutely. It has become the norm to take the easiest way out in facing direct racism to call the person of color a racist if that person expresses any feelings of dissatisfaction with how they are treated.

Take offense all they want to - but when it comes right down to it - White America is still Bigot America.

Robert Stanford

Airport Neighborhood Activist

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=%22robert+Stanford%22+modesto

Obama does name Pflegor and Meeks (another radical) as spiritual advisors. Here is an excerpt from an interview done with Obama from the Chicago Sun Times on April 5, 2008-

Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn- Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, he says.

"I always have felt in him this consciousness that, at the end of the day, with all of us, you've got to face God," Pfleger says of Obama. "Faith is key to his life, no question about it. It is central to who he is, and not just in his work in the political field, but as a man, as a black man, as a husband, as a father.... I don't think he could easily divorce his faith from who he is."

Another person Obama says he seeks out for spiritual counsel is state Sen. James Meeks, who is also the pastor of Chicago's Salem Baptist Church. The day after Obama won the primary in March, he stopped by Salem for Wednesday-night Bible study.

"I know that he's a person of prayer," Meeks says. "The night after the election, he was the hottest thing going from Galesburg to Rockford. He did all the TV shows, and all the morning news, but his last stop at night was for church. He came by to say thank you, and he came by for prayer."

---End Article---

Although I am beginning to believe that it doesn't really matter what Obama's radical, racist connections are. People who want him to get elected so bad, are blinded to the truth.

It would seem some people are so blinded by their own short comings they see things not visible to the naked eye. They read in between the lines so often, they don't really remember what the lines actually said. There are people in this world who are going to believe what ever they want to believe.

truthseeker wrote:

"He's not a regular at the church.so to categorize him as his spiritual advisor or pastor would not be accurate or correct."

Actually Barack Obama has known Father Pfleger as long as he has known Rev. Wright. Obama has known Pfleger for TWENTY YEARS. Obama even helped earmark $200,000 TAX-PAYER dollars to programs run by Father Pfleger. Meaning everyone has given money to Father Pfleger's programs, a man who DETESTS America.

Obama just wouldn't give $200,000 tax payer dollars to just anyone, unless he knew him?

Father Pfleger was on Barack Obama's presidental election committee, like Rev. Wright was, until a couple of weeks ago. I believe the group was called Catholics for Obama.

Here is a longer version of Pfleger's sermon. Notice he does not make a difference between Liberal, Moderate of Conservative whites...he says ALL WHITES have to PAY. So that includes everyone not just those in the center and on the right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUMunBYVKSo

Also I guess the good father doesn't know that the majority of Anglos reached the shores of America around 1900 as they landed on Ellis Island. The majority of those whites either stayed in the big cities in the Northeast or settled in the Midwest. That was 50 years AFTER slavery. They never owned slaves. Many whites fought and died in the Civil War. The majority of the early European Californians came on boats around South America or straight from boats and traveled to the west. So why are the majority of white Americans to blame for slavery in the Southeast? Many of the white ansectors came during the mass migration in 1900 to America.

I bet they don't teach that is school.

The comments made by Rev Wright and the comments made by Father Pfleger were very different.  The Rev Wright was speaking to what can be characterized as a very extreme view held by some African Americans regarding the 9/11 attacks and the US policies towards Palestinians and Israel.  Father Pfleger was speaking directly towards Hilary Clinton's sense of entitlement, a theme that was explored in depth in a Vanity Fair article that was published about 3 or 4 years ago (maybe longer - my memory fails me on details). 

I do not agree with Rev Wright's characterization of the United States.  I do happen to agree, long before I had ever heard of Father Pfleger, that Hilary Clinton shows a sense of entitlement that has been badly shaken by Senator Obama's run for the presidency.  Whether this sense of entitlement is based on her being Caucasian, I really cannot say.  I suspect that is a part of it, though I have more of a sense that it is based on a narcissitic (spelling?  I am such a lousy speller for a white, Catholic, Berkeley grad) power-hungry view that she deserves to be president because she is Hilary the Great.

As for Senator Obama being the only person being held accountable for the statements of religious leaders, Senator McCain recently renounced the endorsement of an evangelical preacher because of anti-Catholic statements made by the same man (he refered to the Church as the Anti-Christ, Catholicism as a 'false religion', and a 'cult').

To compare a political view point espoused by a preacher or priest with the rejection of a doctrine or dogma by members of a religion is like comparing apples to oranges.  It is pretty easy for a Catholic to determine whether or not they are in communion with Church teachings - those teachings are laid out plainly for anyone to see in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.  Whether or not they follow all those teachings is between them and God.  I never rejected my Catholic Faith - but there have been times in my life when I was one lousy Catholic and I knew it.  My human struggle to remain in a state of Grace so that I may receive the Eucharist is one every Catholic faces.  It is a bit different than belonging to a denomination where, if you don't like what is said one may simply go start another denomination.

Is Senator Obama being held to a higher standard of behavior because he is a person of color?  Perhaps.  To deny that there is inherent racism and/or sexism in our system is foolish.  The true test of our country, however, is not to demand that everyone agree - it is to demand that one be allowed to express one's opinion within the guidelines of polite society.  In other words, I may believe that Senator Clinton has demonstrated an inherent sense of entitlement that is based partly on her ethnic background and I may state that in strong language - but I do not get to add, 'So let's all go kill her' and incite violence against her.  My right to express myself should be held in check by my responsibility as a law abiding American.  Quite frankly, I fail to see what the big deal is all about...but then again, I'm one of those white Catholic women who tries to view the world with a well-formed sense of right and wrong - and sometimes I am even able to do so.

Wow. Lots of interesting discourse. Thanks everyone, for expressing your viewpoints.

 I'd like to add a few more thoughts. In a presidential election, we cast votes for the candidate -- himself or herself -- not his or her advisers, spiritual or otherwise.

 In the 1960 presidential contest, people opposing JFK tried to build a case that he shouldn't be elected because he would become a surrogate, a puppet, of the Vatican. Nothing, of course, proved to be farther from the truth. Secondly, while this hasn't been getting a lot of play in the national media, a small percentage of voters -- especially in the Midwest and East Coast industrial states -- claim they just aren't comfortable voting for an African-American, any African-American. That's racism, folks.

 In 1960, a small percentage of the electorate said they just weren't comfortable voting for a Catholic. A bigot's still a bigot, whether you use race or religion to define it. 

So, the more things change, sadly, the more they seem to stay the same.

 And speaking of change, no one represents change more so than Obama. He is not a political professional. His perspective on world and domestic affairs is quite different the current administration's perspective. His ability to bring people together cannot and should not be underestimated.

Finally, once upon a time in this nation, we used to value intellect, civility and working together for the common good. After nearly 20 years of mind-numbing and dimwitted Bush-Clinton-Bush policies, I think the time has come to chart a new course -- a course for change that neither Hillary Clinton or John McCain is capable of leading

But I must tell you I have yet to see any politician, professional or otherwise, affect any real change once they are in office.

Bigotry exists at all levels in this country; however, it is also a word that is thrown at someone who does not abandon their spiritual or religious beliefs even when those beliefs become unpopular.  Therefore, I am always wary of throwing the word about haphazardly; I do believe, however, that what you state is correct.  There are going to be a segment of the population that will not vote for a man or woman because of their ethnic background or their sexual preference or their religious beliefs.

I'm thinking of voting for Stephen Colbert.  Now THAT'S a refreshing message.