Redemptive Suffering: Who is The Holy Spirit
The third person of the Blessed Trinity, the Holy Spirit, is sometimes referred to as "the forgotten" member of the Godhead. He is, no doubt, the least spoken of among the three persons of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Most students of Christian theology of the Trinity agree: Pneumatology, or the study of the Holy Spirit, is probably the least developed, after the study of the Son and the Father.
The most common attacks on this basic Christian belief concerning the Holy Spirit generally come from quasi-Christian sects such as the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and others who deny the central mystery of the Christian faith—the Trinity. Both the personhood as well as the divinity of the Holy Spirit are rejected by these groups. The Holy Spirit is spoken of as a "force," or as "power" emanating from God, rather than as God himself. As Catholics, then, we must be able to respond to these two key misunderstandings concerning the Holy Spirit. The truths about the Holy Spirit are that 1. he is a person, and 2. he is God.
One of the first reasons given for denying the divine nature of the Holy Spirit is often to point out that the Greek word for "spirit" (pneuma) is neuter. John 14:26, for example, refers to the Spirit as to pneuma to hagion (the Holy Spirit). The claim goes that Father and the Son are clearly personal, masculine terms, and therefore, they are revealed as persons. "Spirit" being neuter, on the other hand, supposedly indicates we are dealing with an impersonal force rather than a person.
Catholics agree that spirit in Greek is a neuter term. But this does not necessarily mean the Holy Spirit is impersonal. Nouns in Greek are assigned gender as they are in many languages. In Latin and the modern romance languages, this is the case as well. For example, the Latin word for lance is lancea, which is feminine. This does not mean that lances or daggers are actually female and personal! The same can be said for Greek words such as kardia, heart. The fact that this Greek word is feminine does not indicate hearts to be female and personal. Nor does the fact that a word like baros, Greek for arrow, which is neuter, indicate arrows to be impersonal forces. Words are simply assigned gender in these languages.
Further, if being referred to as "spirit" indicates the third person of the Blessed Trinity is impersonal, then both angels and God the Father would have to be "forces" rather than persons as well. In John 4:24, Jesus says "God is spirit (Greek pneuma) and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." And in Hebrews 1:14, angels are referred to as "ministering spirits (Greek pneumata) sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation." The key here is to examine the context and usage of a word in Scripture, rather than just its "gender," in order to determine whether we are dealing with a person, a force, or perhaps just an arrow.
Speaking of the importance of context, the verse of Scripture used to "prove" the Holy Spirit to be an impersonal force actually demonstrates, when examined more fully, that the Holy Spirit is both personal and masculine. John 14:26 says: "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
Three key points are in evidence here. First, "the Counselor" is ho paracleto in Greek, which is masculine, not neuter. Second, when the text says he will teach you all things the demonstrative pronoun (Gr. ekeinos) is used in the masculine singular. This is significant because the inspired author could have used the neuter ekeino, but he did not. If the Holy Spirit were an impersonal force, the inspired author would not refer to it as a he. And third, notice what the Holy Spirit does. Jesus says he will both teach and remind us "all that [he has] said to [us]." Action follows being. One cannot teach and remind if one does not have the intellectual powers unique to rational persons that enable one to do so. The Holy Spirit is clearly a person.
Indeed, the Holy Spirit is referred to in personal terms by our Lord throughout the New Testament. If we only consider John chapters 14, 15, and 16, the evidence is overwhelming. This is not to mention the abundance of examples we could cite throughout Scripture, both Old (in seed form) and New Testaments. Let’s take John 14:16-17 to start.
Jesus says,
And I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, who the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
In John 15:26-27, Jesus says,
But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me; and you also are witnesses, because you have been with me from the beginning.
And in John 16:7-15, Jesus makes it very plain,
Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convince the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment; of sin, because they do not believe in me; of righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
The Holy Spirit is personal. He convinces of sin, teaches the truth, speaks, declares things that are to come, and so on. These texts leave no doubt as to the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
One last obstacle for some who deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit is found in Acts 2:14-18. In this text, St. Peter describes the power of God being manifested on the day of Pentecost by quoting Joel 2:28:
But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day; but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.’"
The question is often asked, "How can you pour out a person? Is this not proof the Holy Spirit is a force rather than a person?" The answer is a resounding no! Consider Psalm 22. This is a messianic Psalm referring to our Lord’s Passion. But notice how it describes our Lord in verse 14: "I am poured out like water . . . " Would we say Jesus is just a force and not a person because he is "poured out" in this verse? Of course not! So it goes with the Holy Spirit. We do not deny the verses of Scripture indicating his personhood because he is described as being "poured out" in Acts 2:17.
We should examine one key phrase from John 16 more fully when considering the truth that the Holy Spirit is revealed not only as a person, but as a divine person—God himself. Verse 13 tells us that the Holy Spirit "will guide [us] into all truth." We have a hint here of what we see even more plainly in texts like 1 Corinthians 2:11: Scripture indicates the Holy Spirit is omniscient, a quality that God alone possesses or can possess. "For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." The reason St. Paul tells us "no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God" is because it would require infinite power to be able to comprehend the thoughts of God which are infinite. Romans 11:33-34 tells us: "O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! ‘For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?’"
The fact that the Holy Spirit of God fully comprehends the thoughts of God proves beyond a reasonable doubt that his is, in fact, God.
Among the many texts revealing the Holy Spirit’s divinity, perhaps the most plain and unmistakable are found in Hebrews. First, we’ll examine Hebrews 3:7-10:
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, when you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their hearts; they have not known my ways.’"
Notice the Holy Spirit is synonymous with God himself. In Hebrews 10:15-17, the reference is even more clear:
And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds," then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their misdeeds no more."
The Holy Spirit is revealed here to be both a person and divine. He is depicted as "bear[ing] witness," "establish[ing] a covenant," is referred to as "the Lord," "puts [his] laws on [our] hearts," and even forgives sins. How many Catholics realize when they recite the Nicene Creed every Sunday at Mass that they are clearly and concisely professing just what we see here in Scripture: The Holy Spirit truly is "the Lord and Giver of Life."
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Most people will not understand the above cut and paste
LSK you need always state your source of cut and paste also.
Simply put,... when one's faith in Jesus the Christ is genuine and heartfelt, his/her life will be guided by the Holy Spirit. The greatest commandment of all is demonstrating compassion, love and respect for another human being.
It's easy to be a Christian. Many are. However Christians led by the Holy Spirit are few and far between nowadays. They walk the talk, so to speak and it shows.
Yea!!!
Berzookley grad!!! I had a man once tell me that the Holy Spirit is a "she"...would that he would read this!
Thank you for this most excellent writing!
Lsk I needed this today! Thank You!
I do believe I have a spiritual guide, her name is Grace. Thank you again!!
Goldie
Is a spiritual guide
similar to a guardian angel?
Well written
And I agree with most of it, however mentioning the Catholic doctrine I see no where in the Catholic Doctrine where it relates to one's personal relationship and the Holy Spirit.
Meaning saying and doing is two different things altogether. Nice to have books and words written by scholars and then refer to them as though they were the word. If the Holy Spirit described in your blog, then there would be no reason for all the granduer and long processions and schools and rites in order for one to be saved.
Catholics go to schools to learn to be saved, they go to confession to a man as though that man is the Holy Spirit. Why then would one seek a man's decision to absolve them of their sin?
All you need, is to call upon the Father and through the Holy Spirit the Christ being the intercessor will intercede for the human.
Crying out I am saved does not save a person from the damnation, only through the Holy Spirit's urging can one be saved. The Holy Spirit is a being who urges you through conviction of the Holy Spirit that you are a sinner so you have that opportunity to ask God the Father for forgiveness of your sins in Jesus name.
Eating a wafer does not save ones soul, drinking a shot of wine cannot save you, nor can reciting a hundred prayers with beads will save your soul.
Only through the conviction of the Holy Spirit can one be saved, if you have never had the Holy Spirit which is a being actually urge you and you physically feel its presence and you heed the call of the Holy Spirit and call upon the lord and ask for forgiveness of your sins then you may wish to rethink whether you have been saved or are living a lie.
ARE YOU A SINNER ?
I would believe so Catholicoutloud
Just different words :)
Goldie
Hamhock is wrong I guess
from the readings of the comments, apparently HamHock is wrong and most of you understood the writings.
Wayne - much of your characteristics of Catholics is just wrong. We don't go to school to learn to be saved, The Sacrament of Reconcilliation was established by Jesus Christ and in the Bible, and our relationship with The Holy Spirit is as necessary as our relationship with Jesus Christ. The Holy Scripture is the inherent Word of God but we do not believe in Sola Scriptura simply because the Bible says that to do so is heresy.
Oh, and for HamHock? I wrote the above piece for a class I am taking at Franciscan University in Stuebenville, Ohio. While you are correct that I cut and pasted it, I did so from my own writing...and the references are included in the paper.
I know you are new to the Hive and so you have nothing upon which to base your opinions of me or any of the other posters. I forgive you.
Thank you, Lady Goldie!
I wanted to take a moment to thank you. Your ability to just take in information and find that which you can use without having to bash the person for believing differently than you is both refreshing and indicative of how The Holy Spirit works in your life.
'serious' - as the 8 year old would say.
Lady Goldie
That would make sense...I forget to call upon my guardian angel ... I have not named my G.A. either, but I do know that God, in His Love has given each and everyone of us, believer or not, a guardian angel to help us through this wonderful journey of life!
Sigh - Wayne - you have so many prejudices...and all based on error. I pray that one day you will come to put aside your prejudice and accept truth.
LSK
The Holy Spirit rocks. When I was 16 me, my dad, one of his employees and his son were working on pulling an engine from a car that was up on blocks. I switched places with my dad, who was under the car's front end. I was popping a bolt off the front end while on the ground, my legs were sticking out from under the car. When the bolt came loose, the entire car shifted and fell from the blocks. The car came down so quickly that the wheel deum crushed my dad's employee son's foot. I, through the Greatness of God, the Son, and surely the Holy Spirit, was able to do a 180 degree turn; meaning my entire body spun under the engine block, faster than the car fell. Though the block missed me, the front end cut off my right ear and left it hanging by a piece of skin. There was no way humanly possible for me, or anyone else, to move that fast. I can't explain how I knew to start moving, and in the only direction that saved my life, other than God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit!
Thanks again for the post!
YOU GOT IT
Thank you Lord
for your angels moving quickly and swiftly ... removing Jack from harm's way in a twinkling of an eye - - to God be the Glory!
COL/LSK
I have already accepted the truth and the light the messiah.
I was just telling you the error of your ways.
No need for grand standing and pour holy oil to make one holy, strive to become like the Christ, though we never will until the rapture. unless your a Martyr.
Once you are saved you will have the holy spirit inside you which will be your guardian but you yourself are not holy in the sense that you are like God. but as a servant.
Just by saying you are a servant of the lord does not make it so. You must in faith confess your sin to the lord(GOD) and ask for salvation from damnation in the name of Jesus the Christ.
When all this happens the Holy Spirit is there and brings you under his conviction......Once saved you become a different creature unto God,
By refering to other books as though it were the words of God, would be wrong. You can use lexicons, looking for word transaltions but to cite a bishop who had written a thousand years ago, and say it is Gods word or the Holy Spirit is vanity and wrong.
I'll shake the sand from my shoe's....and go on. I did my job in informing you of the error of your ways.
I was trying to inform LSK
of the same. Hopefully we'll have some impact over a period of time.
I'll pray for you. That's all we can do at this point.
To God be the Glory as God gets all the glory and we too by living our life as filled with the Holy Spirit for his recognition, not ours.
And hopefully, Hamhock and Wayne2008
We can have an impact on you, to show you the errors of your ways.
As Wayne has stated, he has a very limited understanding of Catholic Theology. And Hamhock, you are very new here on The Hive and so you really do not understand these types of discussions. I pray that you find your way to the fullness of Truth.
Thank you for being so respectful and truthful in your posts, Hamhock. I would hate to think you were being a liar and pretending to be something you are not. At this point, I will chose to believe you. You are new and you are learning. God be with you.
One More thing
I think people who deny that there was any kind of Christian writing or revelation before the existence of the Holy Scripture have a credibility problem. The argument does not hold up logically; and while any TRUE Christian knows that the Holy Scripture is the inherent Word of God, to pretend that no other historical or theological writings have ANY kind of value is just odd.
This is why The Catholic Church believes that Sola Scriptura is an infanitle theology. There is absolutely NOTHING in The Bible that supports that theory and it becomes very dangerous - because what one person thinks is proper interpretation can become like a loaded gun in their hand. It is why 'Christians' bombed African American Churches during the 1960's...because the Bible 'told' them they could do it.
Without a proper authority to turn to for interpretation, you can come up with some of the weirdest and most dangerous actions in the world and decide, for instance, that shooting a doctor while he is in his particular house of worship is somehow ordained by God.
Faith without reason is not Faith - it is hysteria.
Wayne2008/hamhock
you still here?
We all got raptured....the view from where we are is, well, beatific!
HamHock
OH NO!!!
you are still on the earth???? I have been looking for you in this beatific vision, the light is so bright and people are so happy...I was SURE you would be with us...
Catholic out loud......sorry I dont take drugs
I wish I could think like you do, but fortunatly when I was 15-years-old and was tempted to take a hit of acid, I decided not to.
Try reading the gospels for a change. Some of those ancient writings by assummed clergy could be stained with heresay.
LSKers
Those churches which were fire bombed by your version of a christian were not bombed by real christians.
See when a criminal gets arrested they suddenly belong to every religious org. and volunteered and even saved another human being from death. they will say what they can for a lessor sentence. about like Barrabus who was chosen over the Christ he lied to get saved in the flesh.
same thing here with the racist's.....they belong to every club and religion as a defense........why do you think they join in the first place?.
I said, racist not the normal people.
I do read scholarly papers.
When is comes to the word of God. I read the Bible only. And in worship or asking for forgiveness, I go direct to God. No human need be in between myself and my God. It's that simple and a personal relationship with God was meant to be so simple anyone could have it.
Enough said.
The word of God
Written in the Bible, and all the books mentioned there in, which were not included.
The book of Enoch is a good read and others.
Catholic out loud
When were the Catholics raptured ? Last I heard the Baptist were the first born and the last to leave.
THE FIRST SHALL BE LAST AND THE LAST SHALL BE FIRST.
What a goofy post
HamHock, since you do not read scholarly papers you cannot ask for information regarding apologetics. How sad for you. You would not, of course be aware of this since it is something we in the 12 step program I belong to adhere to with great joy: The sure fire way to assure that one will never be 'a part of' the world is contempt prior to investigation.
Wayne, the Rapture is something manufactered by people who wanted to sell books and make tons of money. If, we will be 'swept away' as in the time of Noah, then that means only the good people will be 'left behind'.
And Wayne, those people who bombed Churches, raped African American women and lynched their men - they say they have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. You are going against your own theology to judge them - you have no authority to do so.
Since neither Hamhock (who is new here on The Hive and has no personal axe to grind or personal animosity towards me from his past experiences here on The Hive - afterall, he is new and so HAS no past experiences on The Hive) or Wayne will read or learn anything outside the Holy Scripture, they have accepted themselves as the sole authority for interpretation.
They are their own popes.
No wonder drunks are always shouting
I feel a song coming on:
The Idea of "The Rapture"
...is an invention of an American Protestant in the mid 19th century. It was invented by John Nelson Darby, and it managed to 'stick'. It was packaged in his greater umbrella doctrine of 'dispensationalism'. If you had asked the apostle John about it (the guy who wrote the book fo Revelation), he would have sat there looking at you with a thoroughly stupefied look. You would have been able to drive a truck into his mouth as it stood there hanging open....full of galactic wonder about just what in the devil you were talking about.
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
Drinking Drunks and Drunks without God
Higher Dimension
Thanks LSK49rs
I know Christian history really well, having studied it constantly during my years as a Christian I have also run the whole gamut of Christianity during my life I almost joined a Carthusian monastery (a hermit group if you are familiar) at one point in my life for example.
Since I'm no longer a Christian (I practice Zen now, and that is where I will stay) I have no axe to grind with any particular group, and I don't feel the need to defend any particular group. I still like these discussions though...for whatever reason.
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
Are Cartusians willing to fight for the Gospal Sean?
My money's on the red monk with the nifty footwork!
God! I wish you were my
God! I wish you were my neighbor Malcolm. I would find ANY excuse to trundle on over and watch your video collection!
Would the Carthusians fight? I doubt it since they NEVER leave the monastery. I met one in Korea once when I was considering joining the order. He was there as the first monk in a Korean addition to the order. I mentioned during our conversation how westernized Korea was, and about how I had been in downtown Taegu, and saw the Elvis Presley club. he looked at me with a bit of an empty look as though to say "why should I care". Then I asked him if he knew who Elvis Prelsey was. He said no (he was very old), he did however, share that he had heard some troubling information about a 'new' kind of music called 'heavy metal'.
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
I especially liked....
....the ads that kept coming up during the video advertising different Christian items, and tours etc.
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
Thanks Sean; but I can take no credit
I just put "key words" in the YouTube search facility and it always delivers the goods.
For instance: Kicked nuts:
What key-words did you use
What key-words did you use to find a massive public brawl in a Church in Jerusalem with a red monk who has solid footwork?
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
Just "Fighting" & "Monks"
"Preachers" "pants" "fall" "down"
Malcolmkyle
What do you click on to get the entire youtube box to show up.
How do you do it?
Higher Dimension
thank you. I understand your thoughts and ideas, and while you are a Zen Budhist now (is that the correct term? I mean no disrespect if it is not), I have a sneaky suspicion that someday we may have the chance to spend all eternity talking about the incredible chance humans have to be One. I hope, someday, to understand why some are so mired in anger and hatred. Right now, their slings and arrows just make me sad.
And, again, I appreciate your contributions and that you do not personally attack me. You are a real Child of Light.
LSK & Sean; such thoughtful interchange has earned you both
my #1 vid
I couldn't see it, Malc
You didn't miss much LSK
just some flying penguins.
Here's a flying Bull:
If that was a little too hard for you, then here's a knitted Farrari:
The penguin one reminds of
The penguin one reminds of the old Far Side cartoon where the cows play ding dong ditch on the farmer, but instead of ditching, then just get back down in the dirt and eat grass.
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
Thanks for your warm
Thanks for your warm thoughts LSK. If there is a light that has children, and if we do indeed spend eternity someplace, then I hope to be a child of that light. While yes, it is Zen Buddhism, I am not formally a Buddhist. For my own personal self. I am fed up to the gills with religious dogma. I specifically do not learn about Buddhism. Instead, I just practice the teachings of Zen which is basically to simply sit completely still and be completely quiet for a set period of time each day. That is what I do and it has done wonders in my life to make a me a better person, to myself, to my wife, to my children, to my students, and to the world around me in general.
I do intend to become more formally involved with a local Zen temple so that I can practice seshin (week long, very intensive sits). I have to finish all my mathematics training though first. I have no extra time right now for formal involvment with the temple.
So at any rate, you seem like a very nice and pleasant person. So I wish you and yours the very best. Peace.
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
Concerning the Knitted Ferari
What key words did you use to find that thing?
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
How do you get the entire YouTube box to show Malcolmkyle
What do you click on in YouTube?
Seshin
I look forward to learning more about your spiritual practices and your journey. Thank you for sharing this with me.
Zen
I'm into the zen stuff too. I am hoping Higher will blog about this.
I have read Gary Zukav-Seat of the Soul and Eckhart Tolle A New Earth.
The New Earth is easier reading then the Seat of the Soul but really enjoyed it.
Now if we do blog on this, I am going to refrain myself from getting into arguements with Wayne. Being spiritual means we believe in all. Take what you want from it and leave the rest. What works best for you. If someone adds to the blog let it be, take it for what it is. If it has something there that you can use in your life, so be it. If there isn't nothing, be kind and walk away from it.
When we say being Spiritual, it is about our journey. I would really enjoy that Higher if you would blog on this. Thanks!
Goldie
This is it
and always will be; nothing more nothing less.
The Zen Blog
Can be found here: http://thehive.modbee.com/node/16584. Peace y'all.
Some of my Classical Guitar Playing
http://www.your-lesson-store.com/audio.html
I won't attend
unless you mention The Master