After Deadline: How do we protect what's best about newspapers?

Is for the Bee to guarantee it's continued existance - the only way I can see that happening is to stop the presses.

Put everything online -

The way I see it - the same people that do not have access to the internet, don't have a Bee subscription anyway.

Or maybe we will soon be relying on www.voiceofmodesto.org.

:)

Robert Stanford
Community Advocate

paper in the morning with my coffee, and its much easier for me to read the paper than off a computor scseen. I would like to get more local news as state and national can be got on the T V. Seems local news went way down on the move to Sacramento along with the delivery service. Maybe you just as well go online as if the service and local news doesn't improve, i'm not renewing my yearly subscription when it expires anyway. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it

I don't have any real answers...but I do realize that I do not see many papers out front in my area.

I don't think they are all in their homes watching the TV or online. They are busy with their lives..and don't take the time to be informed....or don't have the time to be informed.

I know many who have stopped taking the Bee because they do not find it a credible source of local news.

I know that is not very reassuring..but it I does leave room for a lot of improvement.

Many hoped the new publisher would be making a difference. I hope he does....but he better start soon.

I'm with you!

Here are just a few suggestions and thought I have on the subject.

As we all know, the American attention span is about 15 seconds these days.  Physical “newspapers” take time to read (something too few take the time to do, and so many fewer take the time to understand what they read).  That is the bad news as to why readership has gone down.  The good news is that there is hope.

How you ask?  Well, let’s just consider what people want.  Do people really want “news and information” in a straight forward manner?  I do, but I’m not the majority.  What most people seem to want is to be entertained?  Since news is really not that “entertaining”, why not at least make it “interesting”.  The days of Dragnet (“Just the facts ma'm”) are over it seams.  When a news report is dull and boring (as in the writing style of the reporter) even a great story will put off readers of today’s newspapers, and once they are put off they will not return. Jeff Jardine is a good example of good news reporting while being “entertaining”.

Keep the news stories simple.  Repeating facts and names over and over (he said, he said, he said) just takes up space.  Go back to the basics with a good beginning, a solid middle, and a conclusive end.  Don’t drag the story out to fill up space.  (Features are an exception to the rule – but every news article should not be treated as a “feature”). 

Tell the reader what the story is about at the beginning of the piece (at the top) and spark the reader’s attention so they will want to continue to read the story.  Most people are not into news speak so keep it in simple language (no jargon or political speak).   Try to use as few clichés as possible (we’ve all read them before and unless they really add to the story… don’t use them.)

.Don’t have the majority of the stories in the front section all seem like the same story.  Diversify (use a greater range of stories/subjects for the readers.  When I see five, ten, twenty stories that all have the same theme (gloom and doom, or crime on the rise, or politics – politics – politics) I might read one or two, then (even a news junky like myself) I just zone out.  No one wants to be bombarded with negative news all the time (nor do they want all sunshine and roses all the time)…  Balance the stories will help bring people back.

When doing a “human interest story”... ask yourself, do my readers really care about this subject (as in the case of the mother of octuplets).  Don’t drag even a good story out for weeks.  After seeing it on television, hearing it on the radio, the last place we need to see it again is in print (over and over and over again).  Is it really relevant to what is happening in our lives?

No one said a news article can’t have humor in it.  Most of the stories we get in the paper are heavy.  When the situation warrants it, humor is not needed, however, every once and awhile “LIGHTEN UP”.

I know the paper has “Letters to the Editor” sections.  That is very limiting (unlike the Hive blogs).  Newspapers really should make the readers feel that the people at the paper want them to be involved.  When something is happening locally (or nationally), would it be that difficult to have the reporters  (or Editor) go out and interact with the readers and engage them to see how the story would/might affect the readers’ daily life.   People love seeing their names or opinions or comments in print.  That might be one way of increasing circulation – involve readers in the story as it is being written.  More people might be drawn to the written word (hard copy) if they feel an ownership in the news.

Rather than having stories that just go on and on, break them into two or three smaller ones.  One section being the “headline” of the story.  The second part how it affects others, and then a conclusion as to how the importance of the story can be dealt with by the reader.  So often we read stories that leave us wondering how or what can we do about it.  Offer suggestions. 

Knock of the “sensational” headlines.  Rather than “THE SKY IS FALLING”, a simple “Small rock fell out of space”…  After reading “The Sky is Falling” a hundred times, believability is difficult.

Try to bring in the next generation of newspaper readers.  Newspapers for far too long have focused on the 30-50 year old group.  The Bee does have a teen section where teens are able to give their thoughts, however, unless the newspaper industry captivates and draws in readers as young as second and third-graders, by the time kids are in junior and senior high, they will not have developed the desire to read the newspaper.  Write more stories about local school event, student activities, school musicals or plays, feature kids who are succeeding, and include teachers.  Draw young people’s interest in reading the paper and watch how quickly their parents will start paying attention and also start reading.   

When using graphics, photos/pictures in the hard copy paper, make them look interesting.  Don’t put “cute” or “sarcastic” captions on them… just state what they are.  Most readers will be able to tell the story behind the picture if the story is written well.   And when making the pages of the paper, try to keep the story in tact.  Having to jump from page to page to follow a story is irritating at best.  Use larger photos to attract reader’s interests.  Use smaller photos to point out details that are relevant to the story.  Make sure the photos and graphics are relevant to the story.  When showing a person (their face) in the paper, if it is a positive story, don’t make it look like a police mug shot (save that for the car theft section).   Oh, if you have three people in the photo, please make sure everyone is named in the caption…. How to loose a reader… show their face but leave their name out. 

While were talking about the look of the paper… it’s great that the front page is the focus, however, remember that the inside pages are as important to most of us readers as is the front page.  Don’t skimp on the quality of the other pages (and again, if at all possible, put the entire story on the same page… rather than five or six half stories on the front page and the remainder on a half dozen other pages).  If there really is not interesting quotes that can be used in a story, please… please…. Paraphrase the important details …. don’t try to put something in just for the sake of a quote.  Remember this adage… if there is not a detail really worth pulling out of a story, ask your-self, is the story important enough to print.  Get rid of stories that really are not stories.  We’d really rather have a small thin paper with good stories, than a big fat one with a lot of fill stories.

When your using a graphic in a story (like on the economy), don’t make the graphic so detailed, then so small, that the reader can not make heads nor tail of the graphic.  If the graphic is worth printing, it should be worth making large enough to read. If it isn’t – ask yourself, do we need it.

When getting ready to finalize the day’s paper….  Put the past up in front of your (Editor) door and have a sign over the top of it that reads:  “Would I buy this?”.  If even for a second you think “NO!”, then make some changes until you consistently would say “YES!”.   Read your paper daily… if you get bored, you can count on your readers feeling the same way.  If your not seeking the opinions of other departments at the paper, and from readers (like you are in the thread), and are really willing to listen their suggestions, then you are missing a great resource to making the paper more enjoyable (thus more readable and viable). 

And finally…. If those who are working at the hard copy newspaper are not excited about what they do (like the journalist, layout persons, photographers, Editors, and on and on, how can they expect the readers to be excited about reading the paper.  If those reading the paper don’t feel the excitement coming from those producing the paper, don’t expect people to buy and read it.  Your excitement will be contagious.  Your subscriptions will go up, and advertisers will start taking note and will (and here is the bottom line in the health of a newspaper) the advertisers will start buying ads. 

Hope even one or two of these ideas rings a bell and might help. 

You have me exited at the prospect of your suggestions being put into action.

being the editor of the paper? Great suggestions.

thread on SJS Masters...keep up with local sports!

I once subscribed to a local paper for several years just to keep up with the local high school sports. My kids....nephews...nieces...neighbors...friends...extended family...I did my best to keep up with all of them.

I was usually disappointed in coverage of freshman and JV sports...they practice everyday too!

Want more readers....reach out to every student athlete's parents and grandparents. How much effort does it take to include the JV football scores...for instance?

When the newmedia revolution hit strong, the papers should have absolutely proliferated themselves all across the digi-tube. Instead, in a world going green and vegetarian they kept pumping out paper from to many chopped down trees just to repeat the same (unfairly biased towards negative sensationalism)over and over again.
Resurrection could come now from seriously aggressive commitment to mastering the digital world.
All the best to all the employee's that's for certain,
~Marcus:)

unbiased coverage of issues and elected officials.

Just get Real, Be honest for a change and stay out of Politics.

Employ true investigative reporters that have a backbone and have no reason to fear reporting the truth.

Report the news, not what the "collective you" seem newsworthy. I could go on and on.

I would love to have my paper delivered again. I would gladly go back to paper and pay for it. But it has to be worth it to me.

I remember being a kid in the 60’s and walking down the driveway to pick up the Bee, no matter the weather, if it was a weekend and I got up early enough, I would get to sit and read it with my Dad. I even got a little cup of coffee to go along with it. He would explain anything I asked of him. Many years later, I would read the Bee to him.

The Bee lost its appeal. “You” are not a publication that garners much respect. And that is a sad fact.

You have such great suggestions and ideas right here. The Bee should see you have an audience-the Hive is just a sample of concerned citizens who are trying to get answers to their questions. But it seems the questions/the "one asking" just gets dismissed. The Bee has covered some topics that started here on the Hive, so I know it can be done. I would also love to keep my paper coming in the mornings, but when I see intelligent questions being asked here and basically discarded, I lose faith. And if you ask for an example, please see Burnsgracie's well written set of specific questions- just to name one recent submission. A_D, this is not directed at you. You have been very communicative. Thank you

I didn't know that Bmoore3. I guess I forgot.

I have to agree with Stanford4Modesto. I like the paper newspaper, but I am afraid it will be a tough future to continue doing business as usual. It's a changed world compared to the past, for sure. If I were you, realistically I would look at a 3 day or less, per week delivery, so as to maximize income vs. expense. It's worth penciling out to see if it has merit. Better something than nothing, huh? And in my opinion this will only buy time.

Reporting. For the most part, I would report what is Modesto/Stan County unique only. THAT IS YOUR UNIQUE "NICHE" AREA. You have no competition in the niche area. Key in on local issues primarily and do follow-up reporting. That is information of interest. And example. It's a perfect time to begin building interest in the Stimulus package coming our way. Everyone wants to know about it's impact on Modesto. Go out and ask the Mayor what he is doing to prepare, how our community will change because of it's impact, ad-infinitum.

No fluff, few pictures and do not draw the conclusion. It will really not matter as far as your survival, but I have always been against any newspaper endorsing political candidates. It's hypocritical to say you are unbiased, yet turn around an endorse and promote.

I hope you make it. I really do. But truthfully you are competing with the internet for general news. So the only direction to go is to do what your competition cannot do. aka: "The Niche". And I think there is still enough interest in a paper newspaper, even though short lived, but limited delivery days to lower expense of production.

And last but not least. You are in a unique position. You own two separate delivery systems that are competing with each other. That is not good. Why? If you drive the market in the paper newspaper, the internet will suffer. If you drive the market in the internet newspaper, the paper newspaper will suffer. In the end, someday the fact will have to be faced, only one is going to survive.

Anyway, you are here today and doing a pretty good job for everyone. So that is good enough for me.

"Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of crackpot than the stigma of conformity." - Thomas J. Watson

like to see a local newsmagazine, but not one with four hundred pictures of the same three 'socialites' in every issue...

Thanks for making such a great thread. BM3, I really enjoyed your post. It was actually kind of uplifting, even if we can do better at all the things you're suggesting.

Even if nothing else can be done right away, the suggestion: "Put the past up in front of your (Editor) door and have a sign over the top of it that reads:  “Would I buy this?”.  If even for a second you think “NO!”, then make some changes until you consistently would say “YES!”.   Read your paper daily… if you get bored, you can count on your readers feeling the same way." will go a long ways to improve readership. 

Having been a "Visiting Editor" I have seen how much work goes into the front page and Editorial Page....  It's not from a lack of effort on the part of Bee staff... it's the changes people (readers) wanted but not made that caused the problem of lower readership (much of that is the foresight of corporate decision making – out of local control).  If local readers felt their likes (why they purchase the local paper) were being considered at the corporate level, more people locally would subscribe. 

Hopefully the Modesto (unlike the Chronicle, Rocky Mountain News, and dozens of other papers) Bee will continue to be able to publish a hard copy of the news and we can continue to enjoy tucking the paper under our arm and taking it where we go (not having to wait to get back to the Internet) for a very long time to come.

Robert Stanford
Candidate for Modesto City Council
District 4

ok!

Having participated in choosing the stories for the front page down at the Bee Headquarters and being a subscriber for many years, there is one thing I did know going in and that is...

The newspaper isn't an impulse buy like the supermarket tabloids some have apparently been buying.

The Modesto Bee and most all of McClatchy newspapers have suffered every since McClatchy aquired Night Ridder and all of their debt. The goal was to be number one. Now look at them. The Modesto Bee, for example, has suffered beyond repair by moving the printing operations to Sacramento to try to save money. If The Modesto Bee were to remain a true community newspaper, printed for the community, in the community, and by people in the community it would be in a lot better shape than it is today. I believe that is what people want when they read and advertise in a newspaper.

We can't change the economy, at the same time; we ought not to forsake our community because of the economy. This is, or was a time McClatchy ought to have fortified their foothold in their communities.

Maybe the Bee will see what you have written.....and start plans to fortify their foothold in the community.

That means being accountable to the people...not the leaders.

I doubt that McClatchy would ever admit that their plan backfired. They tend to censor anything that might give them a black eye, and that in its self gives them the black eye.

Don’t misunderstand me, I would love to see The Modesto Bee come back to its

Community, I just don’t think that McClatchy will let that happen because their focus

Is big business not serving the goodwill of its community for The Modesto Bee.

Someone wants to play king maker with George and Mike and Bill.

Dont kick us when we are down by raising the prices..

"How do we protect what's best about newspapers?"  I thought that was the theme of this post... So far it has been very little suggestions on how to make it better and mostly negative criticism of past short comings. 

If you want to complain, well, go ahead.  If you really want a better local community paper, come up with ideas that the Bee may be able to work on.  Making something better with negative criticism is not the way to change things.  Sure the Bee has some local credibility problems (as do all newspapers, and the media in general).  How do we change those problems?  By letting the Bee know that through the "positive" suggestions we make, that if they implement some of them, their readership will increase.  Harping on what is wrong and not giving constructive input will cause those who do have a say in our local paper to just turn a deaf ear to our voices. 

Our choice!  Be a part of the solution; or be a part of the problem!

makes things better?...:)

list of things to do?...:)

no offense...:)

Oh awe-inspiring Bmoore3 - hmmmmmmmmm....let's see........

Maybe we just don't have any more to offer.

Why don't you just email Dan Day and have him delete the selected posts of this blog that you don't like!

After all, you are probably one of the very few last remaining subscribers that Bee has.

I have some advice.

Stop the presses and charge access for their website.

And be more aggressive with advertising.

Robert Stanford
Candidate for Modesto City Council
District 4

I feel your comment is just what you are suggesting about criticism, criticism it self. As I am suggesting, Bring The Modesto Bee, and other newspapers such as The Idaho Statesman back to the communities instead of outsourcing them. That would the first step to making them better newspapers. The community does'nt want to hear their opinions refered to as criticism. Remember, the goal is to get the goodwill and trust of the community back.

You may not know this, but, The Modesto Bee was a pioneer of Flexo newspaper printing. Something to be proud of? Maybe not to McClatchy.

The outsourcing looked to many like just more greediness at the time, but looks to me like a last resort alternative to saving it'self (the bee) - the advertising was shipped out - now the paper is rolled off the back of what, the Sacramento Bee? With different ink and smaller format - lots of measures taken.

Maybe bringing back to the community cannot be afforded by the Bee right now.

Robert Stanford
Candidate for Modesto City Council
District 4

Why didn't you mention some of that in a reply to me - or are you just ignoring me on the side?

Robert Stanford
Candidate for Modesto City Council
District 4

I agree to a certian extent, yet we all know thinking only of ourselves to save ourselves only digs a deeper hole. I would guess the waste on an offset press has increased from less than one percent to as high as eight percent, not to mention the cost of gas, or the fact that it is no longer printed environmently friendly. Again, it would be nice to see Modesto get a good community newspaper back. 

where the paper is printed (other than the employment problem), but I do care on the type of reporting that is done. Would like to see more local news, and more investagative reporting on the government, state, county and city. Yes, I know I'm a broken record, but thats my opinion

Your adoration is appreciated.

I have no clue what you are talking about.

If I owe you an apology you will receive it.

Subpoenas are not difficult, I may have misread or placed your name into my memory.

But the comments which I attributed to you I cannot find, I find to your surprise that I am impressed with your comments amusing and intelligent. As my comments should indicate I am very angry and don't assume you have anything to do with this pogrom, but silence is not what Bonhoffer or I believe in.

Never underestimate anyone you consider an adversary

I hope you have not been subject to a systematic assault.

"Stop the presses and charge access for their website", what a novel idea.  Seems that is just what the San Francisco Chronicle is looking into doing.  Just today the Chronicle (in very deep financial trouble) announced it is looking into charging for the privilege to read the paper on line.  Their biggest question now (they say) is just how much to charge.  They don't want to put the price at a level people will stop reading both the hard copy and the web copy of the paper, however, they do already realize that there is a fine line between charging too much for on line news and how much readers would be willing to pay to read the same news they can get in a hundred other places for free.  Right not they sell ad space on their web news.  Advertisers are questioning the value of the money they spend on these web ads as it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference in business (hey, it's the economy, not the ads).... 

Will reader be willing to subscribe to something that with a little effort can be found for free?  Will charging for an on line version of the paper pay off or drive readers away?  Will readers resent the fact that they are paying for something that will have more advertising in it than news and will the news be presented in a manner that will not cause the reader to spend hours looking through stories to find one will be of interest to them?   Ah, such a fine line to be walked when a newspaper decides to go on line and charge.  One of the problems of newspapers going on line is that unless all the newspapers decide to do it at one time, will people just switch to another source of news? 

This all kind of reminds me of the days when television was free and the ads paid for the programs.  People watched good programs and saw the ads.  Then if the programs (like the news stories) were not what people wanted, people stopped watching the program and the advertisers quit sponsoring the program and the program went off the air.  The same principle works for newspapers... present a product people want, and people will subscribe.  Advertisers will advertise, and profits will go up and they will advertise more.  Present a product that does not meet the needs of the reader, people will stop reading, advertisers will stop advertising, and soon the product will be gone (hard copy or web version). 

Journalism-economics 101.  Let's keep an eye on the Chronicle and see what they decide and then see if it works.  If it does, then charge for the Bee on line.  If not, try something more innovative.  Or better yet, try something more innovative while watching what the Chronicle does.... 

This one will excite readers... charge a monthly fee to blog on the Hive.  Fast forward one month after requiring a fee.....  "Hello, is anyone there?"

on the Hive would be "grandfathered" in to any new use policy....right?

"Grandfathered in"?  Heavens no, to make up for lost revenues, those who are now posting on the Hive will have to pay a pro-rated back fee to the day we started... let's say a penny a day.  Heck, I'd owe $11.30 for back dues.  LOL..... "Grandfathered in"...  That's a good one!

PS... the Burnsy ref. was to Madeline Kahn's roll as Eunice Burns...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwwJX2mOuU  she was funny too. 

hold much water. There are many FREE sites for people to get their information from and I don't think the public is ready to accept this "novel" idea.

Some companies have been able to use the additional revenue gained from ads on their sites to help support their business.

There was an extremely long reply on this thread that had nothing to do with the topic at hand, so it has been removed.

was that mine perhaps? The one on  States Attorney Generals response to information provided the Modesto Police in 1999; and the inept investigation. Or was it the BEE's charade in 1997-1998 on an alleged "criminal grand jury" investigation and the fatuous representaions made? Had the BEE the integrity, followed up on similar information provided Mr Dan Day then the removal was gutless, cowardly and CYA. 

Did the BEE know the league affilliation was changed and the AG's current review of the transfer of the assets from the suspended the other two leagues? Or the determiantions on the lack of integrity within the current DA's office? This is a venue for exchage of ideas or maybe the freedom of speech issue is moot, I think perhaps the latter.

After having read the "extremely long reply" that has since been removed, the person who posted it had made quite a long list of accusations and comments about a long list of individuals and organizations.  I'm sure many people had read the "long post" before it was removed and are questioning what that was all about.  Will the Hive management (your desk) be posting any comment on what was written?  There were allegations against some that I know and I'm sure what was written was not appreciated by many.  Will an investigative reporter be assigned to follow up and what will come of what was written?  Or... are sleeping dogs best to just lie... (Probably the latter).   Thanks.

Footnote:  I'm adding this edit because I noted the poster of the story made an additional comment.  It seems I recall another Joe McCarthy in the past....  I wrote my post prior to seeing the above post... a lot of people were named by the poster...  many good people.  It would seem if the poster wanted to bring this up, he should have done so under his own thread....  or he could have purchased a page in the hard copy of the Bee to express his view....  if he's really looking for truth and justice.  That way, both sides could comment. 

The BEE in "Youth $ports" April 24, 2004 and April 25, 2004 in review of the concerns of others on the excessive reserves of MYSA had information this Joe McCarthy presented Joel Hood on those teams you would have seen.

These individuals did steal, misappropriated funds dedicated to youth athletics. While related to the Wisconsin Senator, the comparison is unwarranted but you can't change your name to suit other's disdain for his relatives.  We collectively, or I may be mistaken that we didn't hold the sins of ones father against his children.

A calendar 2000 Public Records I received the Claims for Payment, the Vouchers and the checks. A July 14, 1997, "trap" from the same I accomplished from eighteen years as an Operations Manager of  multi-store operations pre computer, of $40 million dollar enterprises.

Did the individuals named have an opportunity to respond? Yes. J. Edward Tewes initiated a Financial Crimes Investigation March 03, 1999 in which the individuals berated my ethics, values and morality to a level of slander which the MPD gladly accomodated. On receipt of a photocopy of the Financial Crimes Investigation January 08, 2000 I took the liberty of providing the AG the same memorranda provided the MPD and received May 11, 2007 from the AG the notification of the suspension of the leagues involved on dates coinciding with the notification to the same State Board of Equalization "foil" used my the MPD to lend legitimacy to the fatuous nature of the report.

I made the effort sir, only to surrender back to the State a residence located between two of the particants in the theft I alleged. The joe Mccarthy of the 50's and the Joe McCarthy of this authorship are so dissimilar, but then it's not the first time that the comparison has been made.

Truth and Justice? Net assets of $1.7 million dollars lost due to Police Misconduct. This post will probably be removed as well. The County Counsel in 1999 had the integrity to interview me and see why I was so angry and the finances I allege were in fact presented to him and sunsequently legitimized November 26, 2004 and May 11, 2007 by the IRS and States Attorney General respectively.     

Thank you for your response. I have received calls from people I know so the interest is mounting; I welcome their individual lawsuits if they can prove I am incorrect. The posting was in response to another whom I have publicy apologized. 

only chance for income.

I agree with Truthseekers. There are many FREE sites for people to get their information from and
I don't think the public is ready to accept this "novel" idea.

"Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of crackpot than the stigma of conformity." - Thomas J. Watson

For All Off Topic Threads To Be Edited? Or Just Long Ones? We'll See....

"Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed." ........................................................Eddie
Vedder.......................................................

Oh yeah?

Where are they going to get the same stories that we get on modbee.com everyday? Where?

Anything non-local? Where?

AbsTRACT - It all depends on how he feels that day - you know the users here on the hive that are motivated only by emotion and you never know what they are going to post or how they are going to reply - and they probably need some help somewhere.

Well, Dan Day is one of those......

Or maybe not - I don't really know him that well - but it is not by any type of a constant policy that the hive is constantly censored.

It is just censored as Dan Day sees fit.

Robert Stanford
Candidate for Modesto City Council
District 4

They can censor their Web site, as I can censor mine. It is a little like being invited into someone's home, and we can boot out the rabble-rousers as we see fit if any visitors get our of line. ;o) Not that we necessarily agree with each other about it, but that is the way it is.

***
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't.
~ Following the Equator, Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar (Mark Twain)

I guess I was trying to make the ever-so-sublte statement that I don't believe the explanation for the removal, although no one is entitled to one:)

"Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed." ........................................................Eddie
Vedder.......................................................

But would we do it while exhaulting freedom of the press and speech rights?

I would prefer that I as a guest of the Hive, be provided with rules that are followed - not by ad-hoc policy of some geek on a power trip.

I get enough of that with the Sheriff. :)

Robert Stanford
Candidate for Modesto City Council
District 4