Redemptive Suffering and Horror

Are you afraid someone is going to discover that drugs are mind altering substances and that drug users are very capable of murder?

that this guy Sergio was high on meth at the time, THAT IS THE POINT!

I could "assert" that he was a religious fanatic or I could "assert" that he hates toddlers or I could "assert" that he was mentall ill, I could "assert" whatever I want.  None of us has any idea why this happened.  None of us.  Period. 

To assert makes an ass of ert.

to determine that normal, healthy Dad's don't murder their children. SOMETHING was wrong...   Was it meth.... time will tell. It alway's does.

sorry

You wrote:
"Are you afraid someone is going to discover that drugs are mind altering substances and that drug users are very capable of murder?

"Drug users"?

What if  (and that's a big IF at this point) he was using some kind of drug. What IF he was using a prescription "mind altering" substance (like many prescribed psychoactive drugs) or IF he had been drinking alcohol, would go after him with the same zealous fervor you do for "illegal" drug users? Would you blame the alcohol or prescription drug use for this childs death? I seriously don't think so, you are such a hypocrite.

It's almost like you want this childs death to be related to "illegal" drug use so you can jump to the unfounded, narrow minded conclusion that, it was "illegal" drug use that caused this man to snap. If it fits your agenda that's all that matters doesn't it? Just a means to an end.

Your motives are showing again, and it isn't pretty.

Religion does not cause the kind of horrific act this man committed - the incorrect application of religious doctrine and dogma is what causes people, any people, to commit acts of atrocity in the name of God.  It does not take a degree in Critical Thinking or Rhetoric or Philosophy to deduce this; only common sense.

The death of this child, whether the psychotic break suffered by the father was a result of using meth or because he was not treated properly for mental illness, is a tragedy.  The horror suffered by this child, by those who tried to rescue him, by the officers involved in the shooting can be overwhelming. 

To use this death, this tragedy, as some sort of political platform shows an lack of compassion that is stunning, albeit not unusual for this country.  We are, after all, a people who believe in taking advantage of any and all opportunities in order to advance, whether it be politically or financially - we are true 'go getters'.

Like BMoore and Abstract and others, my heart is pained by what feels and seems to my finite mind the senselessness of this type of action.  Like a father who kills his children so that ex-wife won't have them, a mother who drowns her children so she can have a boyfriend, or a man who pours gasoline over his son to make his ex-wife pay for divorcing him and then spends years trying to justify his actions these types of crimes try my faith and patience, my compassion and my ability to love and forgive.

My challenge, as a Catholic, is to hold fast to the teachings of the Church which state that a God of Justice AND Mercy is what is fullfilled in the New Covenant.  My Church, and my 12 step program, both teach that nothing happens in God's Universe in error - and I know from experience that people misinterpret this statement all the time.  They think it means that God WILLS this type of thing to happen.  They think God MEANS for child abuse, domestic violence, war, hatred, bigotry, ignorance, murder, rape, war and other evils to happen.  That, again, is a result of poor critical thinking skills and stunted theological foundations.  I know that sounds harsh, but it is true. 

God does not will for evil to happen; however, God created us with Free Will.  Out of complete and total respect and love for His creatures, the Creator will never go where He is not invited.  He will never force Himself on anyone.  People may try and use force in His Name, to justify actions by invoking His Church...but they are wrong to do so, and anyone who judges the TEACHINGS of that Church by the sinful nature of those who belong to the Church is not grasping the point of religion in the first place.  Of course the Church is full of sinners - that's why Jesus FOUNDED it in the first place.  It was created for people like me - murderers, rapists, theives, liars, whores - and the Sacraments were given to me so I wouldn't HAVE to live my life that way if I so chose.  For many years I chose wrong.  Today I choose to do right, to the best of my ability, one day at a time.  And the kicker is, I try to do so even knowing I will fail, that I will fall short....and I can start again and again and again.

This child, this beautiful creature of God, died a horrible death.  What possible good can come from this?  I have no idea.  I really don't.  I cannot even begin to speculate.  I can only believe and trust, that from this evil will come great good. 

I cling to the Faith that has been given to me as a Gift.  I ask for an increase in the actual Graces needed for me to walk this path and not lose hope.  I pray for the survivors, for the perpetrator but not for the child.  Instead, I pray WITH the child, for I have no doubt he is right now a saint in heaven..and I can think of no more powerful intercessor to pray with this morning than that little boy.

I also wanted to scream when I read this story. It literally made my heart ache.

I have a 2-year-old son who is two months older than this little boy.  

[quote]May Our Lady greet this child at the gates of heaven and carry him to her Son.[/quote]

Amen. 

There were a small group of us gathered at the fountain to pray a Rosary for the Repose of the souls of both these people.  The baby, so innocent...the father, so tormented.  It is still difficult for me to understand how and why, I just know that there are times when my Faith calls us to endure and hope...this is one of those times.

May Our Lord comfort the survivors.  Let us never forget that a society which does not protect its most vulnerable members is a society poised on the edge of destruction.

The Bee posted some information for anyone interested in contributing to a Donation Fund for Frances Casian- the mother of this baby boy. Checks should be made out to Delhi Unified School District, with Frances Casian in the memo- 9716 Hinton Ave, Delhi, CA, 95315

Anyone wondering if there's anything you can do? It's not much, but to have the financial stress out of the equation will probably offer a slight bit of relief. It will probably be quite some time before she is working again so this grieving mommy is going to need a lot of support.

However, I do know for a fact that 85 to 90% of our crime, here in Stanislaus County is associated with drug use. Was Sergio under the influence.... the toxicology report will answer that question. What happened to this child is horrific, and why it happened is important for us to know.

TS, Darn, I wonder if I can prove that! Do drug users actually fly while they're  high? Good question.  If any of them would like to try to do so, I would have to warn them that getting too close to the sun is a bad idea... sunburn's suck. I know this to be true. :D

It's called research.

that I thought that you thought it was a challenge?

Linda wrote:
"I do know for a fact that 85 to 90% of our crime, here in Stanislaus County is associated with drug use."

It would be to your advantage if you could give us actual documentation to validate this so-called "fact" you talk about.

Just throwing out numbers and saying "drugs" means little to people educated on the subject.

You've stated this 85-90% number many times before, but you never offer anything to back it up. Furthermore you never define 'crime' or 'drugs' or just how they are actually 'associated' within this percentile. Even the term "associated" is very vague. Are legal drugs like alcohol and prescription drugs included in your "research". If they are then I would assume that crimes "associated" with these drugs, like DUI's, drunk in public, ect., are included? Am I correct? Are non-violent, consensual "crimes" like possession of 'illegal' drugs included as "crimes" in your "research"? If they are what percentage are they of your 85% to 90% figure? Many people believe that victimless, consensual "crimes" are not really crimes at all and should not be included as unlawful behavior.

When asked where these stats come from Linda answers:
"Multiple officials in the county. It's called research."

Because "multiple officials" parrot this line doesn't give it any weight (especially without context) and it's not "research" if there is nothing showing how this "research" was carried out. Was it reliable scientific research or was it more akin to the baised opinion of "multiple officials". I tend to believe it's the latter. Without real data and definitions of criteria how could anyone think otherwise? Opinion is NOT research.

Linda wrote:
"Was Sergio under the influence.... the toxicology report will answer that question. What happened to this child is horrific, and why it happened is important for us to know."

You should follow your own advice and wait until the report is in before you jump to conclusions. You should also realize the even if Sergio was "under the influence" of legal or illegal drugs that does not, in any way, give us a valid reason as to, "why it happened". Correlation does not automatically mean causation.

In my opinion, and as others have stated no one knows and we may never know the actual reason(s) why this happened. But if I were allowed to speculate, I'd say it could be a number of factors. Probably a combination of them.

Some causes may be:

Environmental factors:
Physical trama (i.e. TBI)
Exposure to biological damaging chemicals (lead, pesticides etc.)
Childhood abuse (physical and/or mental).
Religious beliefs (specifically regarding the belief in demonic possession).
Stress related to work (job security), family (or lack of), finances (ability to make ends meet).
Substance use or abuse, legal or illegal, including prescription "mind altering" anti-psychotics.

Genetic factors:
History of mental illness in the family.
Genetically prone to alcoholism and/or "drug" abuse or psychotic reactions to pharmaceutical drugs (legal or illegal).

I have personally spoke with more than one of the people that were first on the scene & I am APPAULED at how these people stood there and watched!  The articles that I've read said that onlookers tried to stop this man, but that is incorrect, they only verbally tried to stop him.  There were atleast 3 grown males that stood there and watched while this psycho man beat his child to a pulp. NO ONE attempted to physically stop this man - WHY???  He didn't even have a weapon, he was killing his child, how can a person stand there and watch & not atleast try to restrain him?  If the chief of the Crows Landing fire department will stand there telling the man to leave the baby alone, but not even attempt to  physically restrain him, what kind of world are we in where that is OK - a fire chief stands there to watch a child being murdered...  Why doesn't the Modesto Bee to an article on these cowardly onlookers, interview them to see what they did to stop this pyscho - NOTHING!!!

I've also been haunted by this story having small children myself.  I'm brought to tears throughout the day as I have quiet time & this scene enters my mind.  I'm so full of sorrow for the mother.  I've been woken up in the middle of the night with visions of what I was told happened.  I've had such a hard time coping with this story that I think I've turned my thoughts of horror to thoughts of anger for those that were there and did nothing.  Maybe it's my way of trying to get this horrific scene out of my head so that I can function.  The quote you wrote was beautiful and I can only hope that God took his special angels spirit quickly so that he did not have to suffer in his little body.

I have always carried pepper spray. I keep it on my key chain. And, I also keep a corrections sized bottled of tear gas  in my car. It was given to me by a friend in law enforcement. Last year, I was assaulted in my vehicle by two men. I had the pepper spray less than an inch from my hand, and the tear gas would have been easily accessible to me. I have always fealt I could handle myself well in an emergency and having those items with me has given me a small sense of security. So of course I was able to curtail the assault, right? .... No.  I froze. I couldn't even think. I have thought about what I should have done a million times since. So the reason I am telling you this story is because, the fact that I froze in this instance, did not make me responsible for it. It's easy to say what we would have done or what should have been done. If someone did try step in I commend them. That's what we all think WE would have done. If they froze- I feel for them.... how awful to live with the could haves and should haves of an incident like this. But we can't be diverted from who is responsible. This precious child's father is the one who visciously attacked and killed him. That's where the anger should be directed.

I know that none of us can really wrap our minds around what has happened in this case.  It is just too much to absorb.  I so appreciate the fact that people are willing to talk about it and how it has affected them.  Maybe this is too 'touchy feely' for some, but I really put a lot of stock into being able to express one's emotions and feelings.  I know that my feelings are not always reality; however, as a recovering alcoholic I also know that unless I try my best to give a voice to whatever I am feeling I run the risk of being drunk by midnight.

So I appreciate the participation in this discussion.  Of course we won't find answers that satisfy us.  But we can pray together for the survivors - and I pray for the repose of the souls of both these people, the murdered and the murderer.  I am confident the child is with Our Lord.  I pray that the Mercy of a loving God covered the father.

He'll end up in an unmarked grave in Mexico